ZethM
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:34
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| 27-11-2010 02:48 PM |
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| So should we? | | Damn, I guess... (4) |  11% | | Hell no. (16) | | 46% | | WTF, IMA KILL U IN YUR SLEEP!!!1!1! (15) | | 43% |
Oooh, controversial! Long story short: get rid of our guns. This was actually going to be a post about combined weapons (Nail bat, Makeshift spear, etc.). I was six-deep in the list when it suddenly hit me: I don't need any makeshift weapons at all, it would be pointless with all the guns floating around in ZP! After I finished patting myself on the back for not posting a useless topic I asked myself something that we, as amateur zombie-survivalists, should have asked ourselves from the beginning. "Jesus Tapdancing Christ, what the hell are all these guns doing in the city?" Don't get me wrong, there are plenty of handguns, shotguns, and a few rifles that definitely belong in the game. There's no doubt in my mind I'll find some of these weapons at the gun store, under the counter at the liquor store down the street, and in Charlton Heston's cold dead hands. I could even understand maybe a DOZEN or so fully automatic death machines floating around in a crowded city, not counting anything police-owned. But from the looks of things the combined armories of Somalia, Afghanistan, the PRC, and Charlton Heston's hands were all loaded onto planes, which all promptly crashed into each other and rained delicious weaponry onto our fair city(Just in time for the zombie apocalypse too!) So I say make it harder (and more realistic) for us to survive! Get rid of a majority of our available guns and make the existing ones much harder to get! Ok, your turn. |
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CarlBreder
Posts:3369
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| 27-11-2010 03:11 PM |
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^i agree to some extent, we should make guns MUCH harder to get, but then again, we need to make everything more powerful, in the end, it all goes up to the balance issue. Limiting buying of guns would be a start, maybe a cool down, not very realistic i know, but still. |
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Trance_IX
ZP Community Moderator
42
Posts:595
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| 27-11-2010 07:50 PM |
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Once we can buy Perks feel free to bash Guns.
Melee is to weak to do much right now, but with perks such as counter and more your chances sky rocket. |
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| With a Solar Powered Flash Light I promise you will never be without Illumination. |
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CarlBreder
Posts:3369
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| 28-11-2010 12:32 AM |
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^OOooooohhhjay! i forgot that xP |
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ZethM
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:34
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| 03-12-2010 11:41 PM |
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Hate to glorify my own post, but whatevs.
I think that if the devs got rid of a bunch of guns, they would also make weapon balancing a much easier job. I realize this isn't the best idea to implement now but it should be brought up. Thats the point of Beta, right? |
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CarlBreder
Posts:3369
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| 03-12-2010 11:43 PM |
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^Nuuh uuhh! more guns arth bettar!  |
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noobermenschen
![[Rookie Survivor]](http://blog.zombiepandemic.com/DesktopModules/activeforums/Ranks/blue_square_02.gif)
[Rookie Survivor]
Posts:89
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| 05-12-2010 06:49 AM |
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Several good points by the OP, I myself wonder who was stashing enough commie weapons for a freakin' Motor Rifle division in lower Manhattan. But consider:
1) Several players and groups forgo guns voluntarily for their own gaming enjoyment, letting teh 1337 gun nuts blaze away. So everyone gets what they want.
2) Gunplay is gradually getting more challenging. Changes have already been made with ammo prices and weights, groupings are often so large you can't possibly shoot them all so you really need a good blade handy, and ammo availability could very well be limited in the Dev's future changes.
3) Helo has expressed his intention of making weapons breakable in a future change, so they will require repair (and can be enhanced). One possibility might be to make the really rare (in real life) and powerful weapons much harder to find or buy, and remove them from the player's hands after a certain amount of use by breaking it. |
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ZethM
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:34
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| 08-12-2010 09:22 AM |
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1) That's pretty cool, never thought of that. i just see the tons of guns and I'm all like "oH, UBER kewlz!!1! Ima BLAST ALL Z000MBEEE3S AWAE!!!" I'll probably try that post-beta.
2)IMO gunplay isn't complete. I think it's awesome that they intro'd real ammo weight but that's just a realistic drop in a bucket full of "FAAAAAAKKKKEEE."
3)I abhor "breakable" weapons. Real weapons aren't made of glue-hardened newspaper, and you shouldn't have to "repair" them by cannibalizing parts off of similar weapons (Fallout 3+Vegas). With the right amount of maintenance a firearm will last you a LOOOOONG time. There's tons of ways to limit a player's weapon usage, breaking the weapon because of a certain amount of usage doesn't seem right. |
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Scutshakes
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:4
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| 10-12-2010 06:00 AM |
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If we only had a select few guns then it would be really bland. The amount of guns we have now is alright, but it's not difficult to get some of the best ones, even in early levels. Money is easy to come by too, and there's little problems with ammo and weapons once you get enough of it.
I'd like to see these kinds of things much rarer so there can be more challenge in surviving. How they do that I don't know, the NPC endlessly-stocked markets are useful, but they also make things too "easy" in some ways.
I think the guns should be available according to the player level (or Marksmanship skill?), so you still have some sort of a limited selection. Ex. Levels 1-5 are able to use these weak guns, Level's 6-10 get to use the slightly better ones, and so on. Not the most realistic thing no, but still, it could be an interesting idea. With variety comes inferior and superior weapons, rather than just a few weapons that each have their own individual uses.
I think the weapon degrading is an okay idea. Not everyone in the city knows how to field strip and/or clean all of these weapons. It may be over exaggerated in terms of how fast they need to be "repaired", yes, but it's still an okay idea. I wouldn't push for it to be in the game, but I wouldn't say no to it either. |
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ZethM
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:34
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| 10-12-2010 08:52 AM |
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Huh? The amount of guns we have now is alright, but you want to make "these kinds of things much rarer" to make it a bigger challenge?
*shakes you violently*MAKE UP YOUR MIND!!!*ends shaking*
I think what got me on this "realism" bender was the realistic ammo weight. If your're gonna be that specific then you should be more realistic all around instead of whatever you feel like. For instance, there's NO WAY a real city would have this much firepower floating around. You could argue about all the National Guard armories and all the incoming troops you want, but its not going to explain how each and every person can get their hands on light machine guns and sniper rifles. I won't get into it now, but feel free to argue; I'll shoot you down like a whole orphanage at a baby-throwing contest.
I think there should be a shortage of guns in the city to simulate a "real" zombie apocalypse. The lack of guns would emphasize the whole survival aspect of waking up in the middle of a zombified hell. And even when you DO find a weapon, you need a combination of Skill and Practice in order to be effective to shoot with it.
Scutshakes: you brought up a good point. You're definitely right by saying that not everyone knows how to maintain a weapon, and honestly it's never something I'd considered. I guess I'm okay with the whole "weapon breakage" thing, as long as there's a way to learn to do things better. After all, shouldn't the game reward players in small ways for playing longer than others?
Honestly, the only way I'd be really happy is a complete revamping of the game's concept. But whatevs. |
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Scutshakes
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:4
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| 10-12-2010 06:41 PM |
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By the contradiction I meant that I'm fine with it as is, but it would not hurt if they did make them rarer. Sorry about wording it a little off. |
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Terru
![[-Rookie Zombie Slayer-]](http://blog.zombiepandemic.com/DesktopModules/activeforums/Ranks/red_square_01.gif)
[-Rookie Zombie Slayer-]
Posts:691
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| 15-12-2010 02:36 PM |
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I think its ok how it is now. Weapons being easy to get gives beta tester the opportunity to test them and support the devs with feedback so they can balance weapons. Remember the main purpose is to test the game and support devs with game development. When beta ends weapons should be very difficult to get but before that, they shouldnt. |
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| We all die as we are born. We always find the end before the beginning. If to live means to continually search for wisdom, we'll find the end waiting after our last lesson. To finally see the subtlety of the end and understand it completely is what it means to die. We cannot help ourselves from growing wiser. Those who are helpless to their search for knowledge are those who cannot transcend death. |
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falban1026
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:4
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| 25-01-2011 10:46 PM |
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Why not just add exp bonuses for Mele kills? That'll bypass having to change the firearm system (I am a 'gun nut') and add bennies to those who want to use weapons other than firearms. I love the idea of combining nails and bats and other improvised weapons (That would be an amazing feature) but I think that rather than removing features or adjusting, why not add some kind of bennefit or 'motivator' to use them? Let's face it, it's easier and safer to shoot a zombie than to beat one with a bat. I think something along the lines of higher xp could be in order; possibly through the achievement system once it is implamented. |
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Trance_IX
ZP Community Moderator
42
Posts:595
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| 27-01-2011 02:20 PM |
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Well the current debate going on is to remove guns and ammos from shops to make it more realistic.
http://blog.zombiepandemic.com/Foru...fault.aspx
I'm leaning towards melee now as the critical hit factor does give me an incentive towards melee. |
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| With a Solar Powered Flash Light I promise you will never be without Illumination. |
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Internet Virus
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:3
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| 22-02-2011 06:58 AM |
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Posted By falban1026 on 25-01-2011 11:46 PM
Why not just add exp bonuses for Mele kills? That'll bypass having to change the firearm system (I am a 'gun nut') and add bennies to those who want to use weapons other than firearms. I love the idea of combining nails and bats and other improvised weapons (That would be an amazing feature) but I think that rather than removing features or adjusting, why not add some kind of bennefit or 'motivator' to use them? Let's face it, it's easier and safer to shoot a zombie than to beat one with a bat. I think something along the lines of higher xp could be in order; possibly through the achievement system once it is implamented.
I, being a melee user would greatly benefit from that, but I thought one of the main advantages was just the fact that melee didn't require me to purchase and/or carry around ammunition or worry about running out. |
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Ark7
[Rookie Survivor]
Posts:60
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| 16-03-2011 03:07 AM |
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Posted By Internet Virus on 22-02-2011 07:58 AM
Posted By falban1026 on 25-01-2011 11:46 PM
Why not just add exp bonuses for Mele kills? That'll bypass having to change the firearm system (I am a 'gun nut') and add bennies to those who want to use weapons other than firearms. I love the idea of combining nails and bats and other improvised weapons (That would be an amazing feature) but I think that rather than removing features or adjusting, why not add some kind of bennefit or 'motivator' to use them? Let's face it, it's easier and safer to shoot a zombie than to beat one with a bat. I think something along the lines of higher xp could be in order; possibly through the achievement system once it is implamented.
I, being a melee user would greatly benefit from that, but I thought one of the main advantages was just the fact that melee didn't require me to purchase and/or carry around ammunition or worry about running out.
In Dead Frontier, I was a mainly melee user, and although I occasionally suggested extra experience from melee kills, the ideas were often shot down due to the fact that the majority of players used guns. Although as IV pointed out, melee weapons already have advantages, more differentiation between guns and melee could be implemented. Because the devs said that they were considering adding a "zombie mode" upon death, melee users would face a larger chance of succumbing to the infection. However, an advantage for them would be perhaps an ability to attract less random attacks by zombies after finishing a fight. |
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Seth Myrrh
42
Posts:511
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| 18-03-2011 11:56 AM |
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I agree, there should not be infinite guns in the map. There should be a numbered amount of each kind. This would make an awesome PVP system. Sure you might have the best, coolist, most powerful gun, but a lot of people are going to want that gun, and a lot of people will kill to get it in times like this. It would actually make some players not want items like this because they know PKers will target them for it. This would make crazy clan battles too. If clans hear your stocking up a safe house with 20 AK47s and a few RPG, they might come and try to take that stuff away. It would make a reason to keep your good stuff a secret and keep higher levels from flashing all their expensive things all over. xD IDK I just think very wild west styled, people didn't try to be top dog, or be better than others back them, because most who did, died. It would make more team work and survival elements in my opinion. |
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CarlBreder
Posts:3369
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| 21-03-2011 05:38 PM |
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^i tried to push this through a while back, and again a few months later, i cant get any foothold D:
BUT I TOTALY want a fixed number of guns! |
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J. Smith
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:28
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| 22-03-2011 02:17 AM |
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I'd like to see this too, but in a different dedicated hardcore server if ZP wants to keep their base casual players. Along with dehydration and hunger. |
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c2s
![[Advanced Survivalist]](http://blog.zombiepandemic.com/DesktopModules/activeforums/Ranks/blue_square_03.gif)
[Advanced Survivalist]
Posts:139
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| 22-03-2011 04:43 PM |
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How many of the ones wanting to get rid of guns are already high level?
And about being able to rob other users then the game would just turn into a murder game. Why go after zombies when you can grief players by killing them over and over. |
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| How many clans actually want to help. vs Join us or we will kill you or Join us so we can kill them. |
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Prof.Kickass
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:6
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| 13-04-2011 01:59 PM |
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Well, where are all the zombies coming from, either? There seems to be an endless supply in zombies and rotten food and food is available at the same rate of loot from the first day.... so why not endless ammo and guns?
I would like to play a game, that is more ressource fixed (loved to play old games like burntime). Something where bodys turn into bloatd bodies, something where you can't loot 16 t-shirts a day from the same waste bin, with a fixed number of guns and ammo... but It's a totaly different kind of game, isn't it? |
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Leep
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:5
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| 14-04-2011 08:49 PM |
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I would not like getting the gun that I worked hard to get taken away. I wouldn't feel like playing the game very much anymore if thigs get taken away. But I'll laugh as the M16's and M4's get broken first because of the crappy gas system that they have. I would like to be able to use my technical expertise to fix guns and keep them running to prevent their breakage in the first place. |
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Zombiedrd
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:3
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| 19-04-2011 05:50 PM |
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The problem with limited weapons is that those who get them will stick together, and those without are screwed. What does it hurt that there are so many guns? There are no player interactions right now, so it doesn't affect you what others have. I like playing with guns and it is one of my favourite things trying to get a kill with each weapon. Having a set amount of guns screws the majority while the are in power.
Maybe have a system where it jams or malfunctions and you have to use your technical skills and parts to repair them. I could live with that, but if you don't like guns, don't use them. I do and I want to keep them.
Also, if this turned into a forced PVP, I would leave. I like playing a game where I don't get interference from other players. If players could break into safehouses, all the small clans would be raped by the large ones. This is a game about my personal survival in Zombie infested Manhatten, not a MMO where I fight other players for their stuff. |
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c2s
[Advanced Survivalist]
Posts:139
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| 19-04-2011 06:31 PM |
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Posted By Zombiedrd on 19-04-2011 06:50 PM
Also, if this turned into a forced PVP, I would leave. I like playing a game where I don't get interference from other players. If players could break into safehouses, all the small clans would be raped by the large ones. This is a game about my personal survival in Zombie infested Manhatten, not a MMO where I fight other players for their stuff.
+1 Mainly because there will be huge griefer groups whose only goal is to annoy players. |
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| How many clans actually want to help. vs Join us or we will kill you or Join us so we can kill them. |
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ZeoLedcross
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:12
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| 13-05-2011 01:03 PM |
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If you want to make it really challenging why not give maps 2 and 3, 1 or 2 gun shops with outrageous prices? So if you really need to stock up you have to go back to Map 1 to get the cheaper prices. |
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ZeoLedcross
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:12
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| 27-05-2011 06:08 AM |
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Breakage of weapons is interesting but IMO time consuming AND possible SP consuming as well. I kind of resent how long it takes to recharge my SP bar but there's no getting over that as of yet.
You know if people started fighting over special weapons (that break) why not add to the factor that if you DO fight over them they might also get DESTROYED during the fighting! Ammo explodes and destroys weapons, ammo and other items/structures. You don't like guns well here's an idea to get rid of them so NO ONE gets them! As well as really piss off every other gamer. Not a good idea. For turn based i'd suggest getting PARTS for a specific weapon and an NPC that does the actual assembly with money or favor involved. That way devs could keep track of the number of special weapons that are out. |
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BlackGingerJew
[Rookie Survivor]
Posts:55
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| 07-06-2011 03:07 PM |
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I'm getting sick of hearing about all these miniguns... I'd make every fully auto gun much more expensive and only have fully auto U.S. weaponry (Scar, M16, etc.) as terrorists armed with fully automatic ak-47s wouldn't be there... And what military squad would sell their fully auto firearms? Maybe you could get them from fighting rogue military squads as new enemies when looting is implemented. But there could be a few semi auto carbines floating around I guess... They're fairly easy to get where I live actually haha... I don't think zombie pandemic is taking a turn for realism though. |
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Nashkir
![[Professional Survivalist]](http://blog.zombiepandemic.com/DesktopModules/activeforums/Ranks/blue_square_05.gif)
[Professional Survivalist]
Posts:376
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| 07-06-2011 03:57 PM |
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IF we got rid of guns we would never get any new players cause they couldn't do Shit |
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| Never mess with a good musician who has a law degree and can use C++ to make programs. |
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Darvok
Fresh Zombie Meat
Posts:3
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| 14-06-2011 06:42 PM |
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It's strange to complain about too many guns/too much ammo if you're going for realism. If it's taking place in the United States, guns should be relatively plentiful, and ammo far more so.
Melee weapons are actually where it's unrealistic. Swords are incredibly rare, and if you want to talk about durability, melee weapons would be significantly more prone to breakage than guns are. Chainsaws should also require gasoline to use, which itself would be in rather short supply. In short, if you want realism, melee shouldn't be even close to a viable choice, it should be more a question of desperation and a last resort.
On the other hand, this is a game. It's supposed to be fun, and it's doing well in that regard. So let's not make the game a nightmare to play for the sake of realism. |
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Nietzsche
[Professional Survivalist]
Posts:384
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| 15-06-2011 08:50 AM |
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Posted By BlackGingerJew on 07-06-2011 04:07 PM
I'm getting sick of hearing about all these miniguns... I'd make every fully auto gun much more expensive and only have fully auto U.S. weaponry (Scar, M16, etc.) as terrorists armed with fully automatic ak-47s wouldn't be there... And what military squad would sell their fully auto firearms? Maybe you could get them from fighting rogue military squads as new enemies when looting is implemented. But there could be a few semi auto carbines floating around I guess... They're fairly easy to get where I live actually haha... I don't think zombie pandemic is taking a turn for realism though.
YES make all full autos more expensive !!!! especially a minigun, omg there are only about a half dozen miniguns in America, civillian owned anyhow... counts his money and waits for trading..... i have 7 miniguns, one for each day of the week.... |
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| DE TING, DE TING is blue and BLUE ON DE TING |
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