the new scavenging system - two steps forward, four steps back

I like some aspects of the new scavenging system. I like how there's a visible timer, and I like how searches are unique to each player. These two aspects make it so you don't waste time searching already looted containers.

Now for what I don't like: what you find. It seems like you find nothing of value anymore, and most of the time, you don't find anything at all. I can scavenge 4 spots and come up empty handed. In fact, that seems to be the norm now. Wow. What a waste of sp.

Why should I even bother scavenging anymore? I'm not finding ammo, I'm not finding utility items, I'm not finding items of value to sell, and I'm not finding the occasional weapon or armor piece. What I am finding is... nothing. Nothing and the occasional newspaper and spark plug.

Wow, could scavenging be any more useless now? I think the only reason I'd scavenge now is to fulfill those new item requirements for building safehouse rooms. It's not even worth searching brickpiles, as you often don't find bricks in them (tell me how that makes any sense).

In summary, scavenging is now almost useless, where it used to be a profitable and interesting endeavor.

realism, my ass

I think the motivation for the new scavenging system is 'realism'. Is it realistic to be able to search the same truck every 20 minutes and find something new over and over? No. Is it fun? yes.

If you want to be realistic about it, scavenging should almost not exist. You should search through cars and buildings once, and be done with it. And, with thousands of people with the same looting plan, realistically most items of value will be looted before you get there.

Maybe if we were playing a timed survival scenario, that would work. But we're not. We're playing an open-ended rpg, and if you want to have a scavenging system in that, you have to have a scavenging system that is useful for open ended gameplay. And if you want to have a fun RPG, you have to have a scavenging system that is FUN.

The current system is neither. I go to a medical center, search through four first aid kits, and find nothing at all. That simply should not happen. Ever.

Scavenging was fun when it was like a slot machine. It seems the new plan is to make it into a thankless chore, where you only scavenge to get specialty items to build up safehouses, with everything else you find, if you find anything at all, being worthless junk.

the future

My proposal for the future, to make scavenging fun and useful:

[1] Keep the timer, but lower the refresh time to 24 hours.
[2] Think of scavenging like a slot machine, and scale payouts accordingly.
[3] Make brickpiles function as if they are actual piles of bricks. i.e. Everytime you search them, you should find at least 5 bricks. If this seems to make the brickpiles "too good", then have less brickpiles on the map. I'd rather have a handful of brickpiles on the map and have them actually WORK, then have fake brickpiles everywhere that give me rocks.

BTW, this proposal would increase realism, as realistically, brickpiles are rare, and are composed of actual bricks by definition.

and finally:

[4] In scavenging, Take the attitude of "everyone's a winner" and give marginally useful items even when you don't find anything good. Examples of marginally useful items: a lead pipe (barricade +3), and a shirt that sells for 10 dollars.

Agreed, and well put. The scavenging does look bleak and unrealistic. I especially like the point about the brick piles.

I have been saying this for months.

I have just given up the game, looting used to be fun, building used to be fun.

Now its just depressing.

Will check back in a week or so to see if the updates make any difference.

The I icon.

No one seems to remember it exists or what it's for. But, in this case (and in others) it is extraordinarily usefull. You say the drops at location X suck? Hit the "I" icon. You'll get a detailed list of all the items found at that location by those who were there before you.

This will not supply hit vs empty lootables data, but it WILL tell you what the lootables on that location are dropping. I have also found it extremely useful for "guessing" wether someone is actively farming a location or AFK there, as well as finding out wether the lootables have already respawned at that location (if the last loot was over 3 mins ago then they have, in theory).

Hard data will help or hinder your theories, but it will make them more material either way.

I haven't really experienced the new scavenging system on the test server, but if it really is as you describe, then I agree wholeheartedly with your post.

One of the major gripes I have with games that feature scavenging is the "nothing" result. There should never be "nothing", realistically speaking. Even if it's an item worth 5$, at least it's *something*! Try scavenging in real life; will you ever find "nothing"?

The "slot-machine" approach sounds like a very good idea to me. If you're lucky, you'll get a rather useful item. If you're luckier, a rare item. However, and this is the important part, even if you're not lucky, you may still find something good enough to sell, even if it's for a small value - amount a few of those, and you've got a productive day. By ensuring we loot less trash and more useful items, even if they're sold for 10$, it's already quite the improvement. Also, I think more items should be given barricade points; that would make certain junk less junky and more funky. Pardon the pun. : P

We already waste so much SP moving around and searching that I doubt anyone would be able to abuse such a system, especially with the timer. Speaking on that matter, is the timer set independently for each player or global for the whole player base? Naturally, the first case seems more logical, but I'd just like to confirm it. If it's player-independent, 72h isn't that much, given that you'll have the whole map for yourself to loot.

if that happens, maybe the loot cost of SP SHOULD be 2!

nah its SP it will remain were it is... (im not answering my own post lol)

looting drops now controlled, but what about the SP? can it be REDUCE to 2? (NAH ITS SP)

RELOADING cost 1 SP and still i dont know WHY? WHY? WHY?













WORST CASE SCENARIO (just kidding)


YOU EQUIP SOMETHING -1SP

UNEQUIP SOMETHING -1SP

RELOAD -1SP (already exist)

SENT CHAT MESSAGE -1SP LOL

Spiderjerusalem the problem is that on the test server, scavenging is now independent of others. The current system on the game server shows reliable data but the new system wouldn't work that way.

Posted By hellslayer on 21-07-2011 01:37 AM
Spiderjerusalem the problem is that on the test server, scavenging is now independent of others. The current system on the game server shows reliable data but the new system wouldn't work that way.

Is it really that way? The new scavenging system was implemented, yet I can still see the past loots within the Info tab. Does it show only the loots before the update or are they all still showing?

If they won't show, that pretty much makes the Info tab useless.

It has to be independent looting, otherwise we would all have to share the same loot respawn timers and that would mean that my character on live, was the first to loot in many different map squares today.
I think not...

I am uncertain on the status of the 'info' tab. Good question though.

agree with all of this. 72 hours is a ridiculously long amount of time to take to simply find NOTHING anyway.

I am on live server with this looting patch in place. I have not noticed any of these "looting problems" that have been plaguing others on test server, it seems. I seem to be getting about the same amount of loot as before, Of course, I do not stand in one place waiting for a single loot node to yield its treasures to me...

Think of it as a stream of random loot nodes passing you by as you wander the zombiehood. No one loot node can defeat you. If you do not get what you want, simply move past the offending loot node and look for another one.

The problem with this is that it costs 4 SP to move to a new location and 3 SP per looted item. At this rate I'm running out of SP before I can even move 25-30 spaces. Since it takes a full day to fill your SP and takes 30 min to empty you SP this is making for some really lame game play. Forget about doing any missions and looting on the way. By the time you get to your mission and complete it you don't have enough SP to get back and turn in the mission.

The loot system really should be reduced to a 24 hour timer. Honestly, do the developers not want us to play more? Would it not give people better reason to spend money and buy premium accounts if they got to play more? Granted the premium accounts get higher SP counts and a faster regen time but it still takes many many hours to refill that SP. I'm willing to bet a lot of people would play more and be happier if the looting and travel cost was reduced. I know I would be ecstatic if the travel cost was reduced to 2 SP and the loot cost reduced to 1 SP. It would also make a lot of sense to have your SP refilled when you level up. Especially if the SP costs of actions remain the same.

@ Hircinus (sorry, I missed the devs post)

Sounds like what you want is to step outside the Campus HQ or safehouse entrance at the beginning of each gaming session, loot the 5x5 or 6x6 map grid immediately surrounding the HQ or safehouse, step back into the safehouse when you run out of SP and then repeat the process every day thereafter, searching the same map squares over-and-over? But that is farming and is something the devs do not want.

If you are really only getting 25-30 spaces per session, maybe you are searching too many loot nodes? I stopped searching the 'dead bodies' real fast, I still search bodies of soldiers, raiders, firefighters police, etc, but not the bodies of civilians. I also stopped searching the piles of junk and bricks right away. I only search those when I am gathering materials to build a safehouse - and even then I only search the brick piles when I am on the way into the safehouse. I do not search anything that is burned, charred or scorched,

Using a regular 480SP account, I was able to map a 5x5 grid every gaming session without ever going back to the same area. In a couple of weeks I had mapped a 15x15 area centered around the Campus HQ, done a few missions and accumulated enough cash to trade up to a SMG.

Eventually, you would either have to switch your base of operations or get a premium account because of the increasing SP cost to get to and from your resting place, but you should be able to do a 25x25 area in a month.

Also, this is a browser-based game. Game play on games like ZP is meant to be 'lunch break casual' style, not '14 hour MMO grind' style. Part of the reason for this is that the small indie developer teams that build these games need to keep bandwidth costs down so they can keep the games free-to-play.

@blperry99

Actually I am not wanting to just stay in a grid around my safehouse. I rarely loot at all anymore since 90% of the time I get and empty loot node, more so after this new update. I don't wanna have to wait 72 hours only to get another empty SWAT van or a string of empty army vehicles and dead soldiers.

What I really want is to be able to play for a couple hours a day instead of 30 min. I'm not asking to be able to play for 14 hours, just 3-4 hours and some of that time spread throughout the day. I want to be able to complete several missions and still have SP to loot interesting places I find on travels between the mission point and turn in location.

My most recent mission sent me to a location "a couple of blocks away". This actually was a 120 SP trip in 1 direction. Thus being a 240 SP round trip and half a full charge of SP on 1 mission with no looting done. I'd really love to be able to explore more places around the mission points but the travel costs prohibit this. After all is said and done and I'm done playing missions or looking for loot I like to return to my safehouse and work on building new sections of it. Many times I'm not able to do so and I'm forced to hold up at a mission location or training facility if there is one nearby.

Is it really too much to ask to be able to play a great game more often than once a day? Is it really too difficult to see that people can still play casually while others are allowed to play more if they choose to do so? Is it fair to force everyone to play like they only have 30 min of free time a day? Even on my busiest work days I still have many hours of free time in the evening that I choose to fill playing games instead of watching TV.There aren't many other games I have found that I enjoy playing. This game is the first I have found that peaks all of my gaming interests.

If I'm to be continually told to play like I work 16 hours a day and sleep 8 hours I'll just quit the game entirely and take the other people I got to join the game with me. Also, myself and these other people wanted to buy premium accounts, but now we don't want to because there is no point in paying for something you don't really get to play and enjoy for a very long period of time. Premium accounts are a joke anyway. You get 1440 SP once and then you have to wait days for that to fill up again.

I guess this post is going to fall on deaf ears but I'll post it anyway. Maybe somebody with some sense will see it. Hopefully somebody that realizes these games aren't just for the super workers that only stop working for only 20 min a day.

What a tragedy?! I just found an M16 Assault Rifle while looting around some police station I had never been to before. This new scavenging system sure SUXORS. Oh well... I guess I'll just have to use the dang thing as my primary and keep my HK54K for backup.

@ blperry99: One M16 does not a point prove. I too agree with the others that the current looting system needs tweaking, either with better drops and/or with a shorter timer.

@Hircinus: Seriously .. get a premium account. With 4 characters and higher SP regen you WILL be able to play to your heart's content. Free accounts and power users don't mix well, and you seem to be more at the power user end of the scale. Or fill out some surveys/spend some money and buy caffeine pills for when you want the extra gaming boost.

If everybody could zip around the map to their heart's content then nobody would feel the need for premium/adrenalin, now would they?

If everybody could zip around the map to their heart's content then nobody would feel the need for premium/adrenalin, now would they?

I think you have it backward. If everyone could zip around the map, the game would be much more FUN, and many more people would be motivated to buy premium so they could have 4 times or 6 times the fun.

If the game isn't fun, (and, for the most part, the game in its current state is not fun), then why would anyone buy premium and spend more time playing a not fun game?

I think you have it backward. If everyone could zip around the map, the game would be much more FUN, and many more people would be motivated to buy premium so they could have 4 times or 6 times the fun.

So let me get this straight: If I'm given free cable I'll be more inclined to go out and pay for it? Because my paid cable shows will then be SIX TIMES more fun? Wow. And here I thought the shows would be exactly the same. Except now I was paying for them.

Where do I buy tickets to your world max, sounds like a strange and wondrous place.

If the game isn't fun, (and, for the most part, the game in its current state is not fun), then why would anyone buy premium and spend more time playing a not fun game?

The reasons why the game supposedly "isn't fun" are several, but I'll focus on the 2 most mentioned here:

a) New looting rules have crashed the economy - I already said I agree that it needs fixing.

b) SP costs are too high - Get. Premium. Premium = more SP. "But I don't wanna, I wanna cry about how SP costs are too high instead". Well go right ahead then.

I'd say we should agree to disagree, but I don't think we can.

Whatever. You're hopelessly confused.

By your logic the free game should be total crap, and then you have to pay to get a decent game. Has that ever worked for shareware? (Of which the free-to-play model could be considered a variation of.) No.

If you want people to buy your shareware game, you make the free parts good.

It's the same with free to play. All this "forcing people to go premium" b.s. is going to do is force people to not play the game.

You don't get paying customers by pissing them off, and you don't get paying customers by making the free game suck.

And anyway, how does going premium solve the movement sp insanity? Even with 50% more sp (which premium gives you) you'll still be wasting a huge chunk of it just moving around. (That's Something highly unusual and almost unique to this game. Most games don't charge you sp just to move around. No, in most games movement is free and they only they charge you sp for actually doing something. I understand having SOME movement cost to make location be a factor, but movement shouldn't be the focus of the game, actually doing cool things at different and interesting locations should be the focus of the game.)

And how does having more sp solve the looting system nerf?

Looting is so poor now that I've practically given up on it. Sorry, but I don't want to waste sp looting if there is a 75% or 90% chance to find nothing. If I have 50% more sp I still won't want to waste it looting with the current system.

So, why should I buy premium again? Hmmm, I guess my original analysis still stands.

So let me get this straight: If I'm given free cable I'll be more inclined to go out and pay for it? Because my paid cable shows will then be SIX TIMES more fun? Wow. And here I thought the shows would be exactly the same. Except now I was paying for them.

If I get ten free cable channels and they're good I'll be inclined to spend 10 bucks a month to get 50 more channels of similar quality.

UPDATE: The scavenging seems to have gotten better on the test server in the past day. I can actually find stuff now (or maybe I'm just searching different container types). It's still no where need where it should be, but it doesn't totally suck.

Whatever. You're hopelessly confused.

By your logic the free game should be total crap, and then you have to pay to get a decent game. Has that ever worked for shareware? (Of which the free-to-play model could be considered a variation of.) No.

That implies that 480SP a day is crap. The relevant issue there is how much do you play the game? If you do it over 30mins to an hour then 480SP is sufficient. If you want to play it for 4-5 hours then 480SP is insufficient and you should get premium. If you want to play it 16 hours a day then premium is insufficient and you need daily shots of adrenalin. It all depends on the level of availability you want out of the game.

A balance has to be established between keeping the game playable for free players, while at the same time ncouraging said player to spend money on it. Your logic is "give me everything for nothing and I'll pay. maybe.". I don't think that's a supportable business model and neither do the devs. Nor do most people I think. Unless they're not the ones depending on the money to get by.

If you want people to buy your shareware game, you make the free parts good.

ZP IS a good game and every single part of it is free, INCLUDING premium items. Also, shareware dies on you after 30 dies, X uses or holds back features from you. ZP does none of these things.

That moving a square now costs 4SP instead of 3SP turned the game from good to bad is ridiculous. Stricter looting rules make life difficult for all, but they don't make the game unplayable, be it free or premium account.

It's the same with free to play. All this "forcing people to go premium" b.s. is going to do is force people to not play the game.

You don't HAVE to go premium, it will simply make your life easier and allow for a gameplay lenght adequate to your needs. If you prefer your life harder, your gameplay shorter and $15 in your pocket you're quite free to make that choice. However... you can't have your cake and eat too.

But you think you can. You think you should. And you think the devs are in the wrong for not letting you. and you can't be convinced otherwise. *Shrugs*

You don't get paying customers by pissing them off, and you don't get paying customers by making the free game suck.

No, you get clients by offering a service they want/need. And if you can generate a demand for that service then the client will come to you . The service is Premium. The need for that service is more SPs. And it works. It worked for me, and I've never paid for any other online game.

And anyway, how does going premium solve the movement sp insanity? Even with 50% more sp (which premium gives you) you'll still be wasting a huge chunk of it just moving around

Which is deliberate. They don't want you exploring the game map too fast. If you could zip around the map at will you'd finish the game far too quickly. Then you'd get bored and quit. I can do 1, maybe 2 missions a day with premium. I find that progression quite adequate, ohers may disagree.

What else are survivors in a zombie apocalypse supposed to spend their time/SP on anyway? playing chess? knitting? Or moving around and looting? Also.. 4SP per square has always been the norm for me since I got here. Maybe that's why I don't see the "lunacy" of it.

And how does premium solve it? It gives you MORE SP. More SP = More moving around. More looting. I just can't explain it any simpler than that, seriously!

(Something highly unusual and almost unique to this game. Most games don't charge you sp just to move around. No, in most games movement is free and they only they charge you sp for actually doing something. I understand having SOME movement cost to make location be a factor, but movement shouldn't be the focus on the game, actually doing cool things at different and interesting locations should be the focus of the game.)

If movement was free we'd all be hitting the prime loot location and teleporting to missions. Playing a zombie apocalypse like I'm The Flash is not appealing to me. Nor to most people I would wager.

And even if we couldn't teleport, had to do it one square at a time... then you'd be complaining "oh looting costs too much SP, drops are too crappy, why can't that be free too, this game sucks". So it's kind of an ongoing "I can't do everything in this game for free and pay no money, hence game sucks" thing you got going there.

Granted, some things seem unbalanced and unfair to me too. But it seems like you complain about anything that makes life harder or changes the previous status quo sucks. Movement sucks. looting time sucks. Drops sucks. HP sucks. Premium items only miniguns suck. And if it's something that makes life easier then that sucks too (if you have to pay for it, that is).

And how does having more sp solve the looting system nerf?

Looting is so poor now I've practically given up on it. Sorry, but I don't want to waste sp looting if there is a 75% or 90% chance to find nothing. If I have 50% more sp I still won't want to waste it looting with the current system.

So, why should I buy premium again? Hmmm, I guess my original analysis still stands.

it solves it (partially) by giving you more SP, which allows you to spend more points searching more lootables between point A to point B. But, as I've said repeteadly, looting need fixing.

Also.. you've been playing awhile. You have guns, you have armour, you have gear and ammo. And yet the new lootables rule has you in this much uproar over it. I would imagine all the new players, with nothing but the clothes on their back, are right now storming the devs' home with rocks and newspapers, baying for their blood. Because noobs have NOTHING and yet they're still playing the game. And making alot less noise about it. (That's FREE PLAYER noobs btw).

For them there is no new reality. 72 hour lootables is the only reality they know. HP/CON ratio. 4SP movement rate. Crap drops. They will find ways to make do as free players, leave the game for one reason or another or decide to go premium. But they won't swarm the forum complaining about how the game is so harsh now.

Your signature is missing a very important word: ADAPT!

Whatever. You're still confused. Well, enough of that.

Your signature is missing a very important word: ADAPT!

My signature is from the extremely cool post-apocalyptic Discovery channel show "The Colony". Also, intelligent people adapt anyway.

My signature emphasizes that survival is a part of the process, but it is only one part of the process. You don't survive just to sit around sucking and spending the rest of your live just scraping by. (This is in ZP, in the Colony, in video games in general, or in life.) In an apocalypse, you survive so you can rebuild and make an awesome new civilization out of the ashes of the old.

If I get ten free cable channels and they're good I'll be inclined to spend 10 bucks a month to get 50 more channels of similar quality.

Ah no no no.. if you get 10 free channels and 2 of them suck you flat out refuse to spend 10 bucks until those 2 channels don't suck no more. If they all get fixed to your satisfaction (which is somewhat dubious in itself), then you *might* be "inclined" to spend 10 bucks in purchasing those selfsame 10 channels, as those 10 bucks don't buy you anything extra (no extra channels, just more viewing time). And I see no reference to you getting (6x) more fun outta those 10 channels just because you're now paying for'em.

You'll have to pardon me if I don't take your willingness to pay for cable tv seriously. But by all means do enjoy the promotional channels, they are free for all regardless.

If you have 4 characters and 50% more sp on each character that's 6 times the playtime. (4 x 1.5) Do the math.

Right now the game is so unfun that I am finding creative ways to waste the sp that I have, so getting more sp would do me no good. Somewhat paradoxically, lowering the movement cost to 2 sp would make the sp I have more useful so I'd be motivated to spend more sp a day and would be more inclined to buy more.

Yeah, you want people to buy more sp, make sp MORE useful, not less.

Oh, damn, I'm still talking about this. Spider, please don't respond to this post. While responding to your fallacious ideas makes me clarify and delineate what I'm saying, I'd much rather talk to someone who seems capable of 'getting it'. Sorry if this sounds insulting, but you just seem like... a stubborn fool. I'd rather not talk with you any more.

I get that alot. Usually from people whose logic is inconsistent. They stop trying to explain their logic to others because it stops making sense to themselves. And shift into "you're a close minded stubborn fool, I don't want to talk to you no more".

Have no fear, we shall meet again Mr Bond.

@Spider
I bet you get that a lot. People stop trying to explain themselves to people like you because you refuse to look at things from a different point of view. You just keep regurgitating the same thing over and over. It doesn't stop making sense to them. They realize it doesn't make sense talking to a block wall. Also, it's really pathetic you'd stoop so low as to make a dig on someones signature. It's really sad Max had to defend his signature just because he's trying to explain a point of view different from yours.
I totally agree with Max. If I got more use out of my SP I would be much more inclined to pay for more SP. Right now it's just a waste of time so it's not worth wasting money. I really do plan on buying a premium account but right now it just seems like a waste of money. However, having a faster SP regen across 4 characters would give me a lot more to do. I don't really want to play 4 characters or 2 for that matter. I want to be able to get more enjoyment out of my 1 character without having to pay all the time. Mind you I don't mind paying a little here and a little there. I just can't justify spending a great deal of money on a game that is supposed to be free and marketed as free. Before you go off spouting its only 15 bucks for premium and a buck for a refill of SP. Since SP gets burned off so fast, even being super picky with looting and travel, those 1 dollar refills add up rather quickly. BTW, I have spent money on a few refills and I have done surveys but the free credits have not appeared at all. I don't seem to be worthy of a reply as to why I did not get my credits. Facebook seems more concerned with pushing out their next update full of yet more bugs adding to those that still have not been fixed after many, many months.
Also, your cable tv analogy doesn't really fit the situation. Most people don't even watch more than 3-5 of the normally 60 available channels. In this game I, like most people, play and enjoy every aspect of it. Missions, exploring, zombie killing, looting and safehouse building/upgrading. If I paid for twice as many channels I'd still just watch the same 3-5 I was before. If you want me to spend money for cable I want more out of those channels, not more channels I won't be watching. For example, if I paid for cable I would want fewer commercials so the shows I like would last longer thus giving me more entertainment for my money. You'll also notice you pay for cable once a month and don't have to put more money into it throughout the month so you can watch more tv on some days than you do others.

Posted By admin on 22-07-2011 02:39 PM
The new scavenging system is also more profitable than before with a higher average payout of each container search with slightly increased drop rates

I rly haven't noticed that. I haven't found anything of value sense the update and most of the players ive talked to feels the same way.
I like the fact that there is a 72 hour cool down on looting,
but has the average payout rly increased?
Has anyone noticed that?

Broberg, I am among the many who feel the same as you. The initial 72 hour update made scavenging SUCK, and I wasn't able to find anything of value, literally searching entire grid squares and coming up empty handed. However, in the past day or so, it appears that the drop rates have been increased and I can actually find stuff now. (This is on the test server, BTW.)

So the scavenging doesn't totally suck now, but it is still nowhere near where it should be. I stand by my recommendations from the beginning of the thread.

On another note, if you think of scavenging as a slot machine, I'd rather play the machine that give me regular small payouts with the occasional jackpot than play the machine where you lose almost all the time only to make your money back with the occasional big jackpot. Yes, I'd rather play the first machine than the second, even if the second paid out slightly greater returns overall, because it is simply not fun to play the second one.

It is not fun to gamble and lose most of the time, even if the rare win makes your investment back. Likewise, in games it is not fun to scavenge and come up empty handed most of the time, even if the occasional rare good item makes it worthwhile to do so.