Want Trading?

Yes! (20)

74%

No! (7)

26%

What do you think? Trading sound nice & all, but just about everything can be bought or found. Thoughts?

I had to settle for yes, as there was no "extremely yes" option.

Its not necissary, but it would be nice.

It would be nice to have. Im getting annoyed finding something (normally ammo) that I have no use for but someone else in my clan does have a use for it and vise virsa. I find 9mm ammo all over the place but have no use for it but one of my fellow clan members can use it. He also finds a lot of 7.62 ammo that he doesn't need but I do. So it would be a nice feature to have.

I wouldn't see a problem if it was just trading between your own characters. Heck they could have a little market in each map where you could buy n sell with other players. But yeah trading would be nice.

if they add pvp no.

I'd like to see trading system between my own characters.
As for trading with other players... I don't know, tbh.

Could be good when you need some items that cannot be bought from shops, but on the other hand... might turn into something similar to the DF market ($100K for a shotgun, anyone?)
Probably wouldn't ruin anything, I remain undecided on this one, though.

Posted By Emily on 24-11-2011 02:45 PM
I'd like to see trading system between my own characters.
As for trading with other players... I don't know, tbh.
Could be good when you need some items that cannot be bought from shops, but on the other hand... might turn into something similar to the DF market ($100K for a shotgun, anyone?)
Probably wouldn't ruin anything, I remain undecided on this one, though.

Not if the players dont set the prices ;-)

what kind of mmog is it if there's no trading?

the major problem to zp is how to deal with the multi characters of the premium users when the tading system is launched. too easy to abuse the feature.

Abuse? How?
If a character can buy things from other players, why would it matter if (s)he bought something from their other character?

Except the price, yeah...


In my opinion, the thing is - where or how to implement this market.
Could it be acessed from anywhere in the map, or would we have to go to certain zone?
How would it work?
Would it be possible to sell crafted items?
etc.

These are the questions that needs to be answered carefully in order to not ruin the game concept/feeling/balance...whatever.
At least this is what I think.

it could be restricted to map 3, that way ONLY level 50+ character would be able to trade

Map 3 is still being finished. There should be a specific shop in each map made just for PT (Player Trading). It would have to use the SET game buy sell prices. That would eliminate anything with prices. There would be no bartering with the prices. If you want it now then pay the price, or go to a store thats further away and spend the same amount of money for the exact same item. Crafted items should also be bought/sold at these location. I don't see any major problems it it was set up like this. Any comments on the on this idea?

Posted By Emily on 24-11-2011 06:07 PM
Abuse? How?
If a character can buy things from other players, why would it matter if (s)he bought something from their other character?

Except the price, yeah...


In my opinion, the thing is - where or how to implement this market.
Could it be acessed from anywhere in the map, or would we have to go to certain zone?
How would it work?
Would it be possible to sell crafted items?
etc.

These are the questions that needs to be answered carefully in order to not ruin the game concept/feeling/balance...whatever.
At least this is what I think.

here is an classic example of abusing:

imagine a new kind of state-of-the-art weapon gets launched. and players can buy them from npc for $100,000 each. none of my four characters have enough money but each of them has $25,000 on average. so how should i do?

right if there's a trading system which allows you to trade between your multi-characters, then i can just let my three characters buy some crap from the last one. so in the end i can afford the shinny weapon and i can share it between all my characters.

you might say then what's the problem of that? seems it's ok and the premium players should enjoy some privileges like this one, shouldn't they?

i partly agree with you that premium players should have some privileges. but there needs to be a limit to them. in my opinion none kind of privilege should harm the balance of the game which the devs are trying to achieve. the difference between premium players and non-pay players can't be that huge.

why?

because otherwise most of the non-pay players would either quit the game or turn into premium players. and which result would be more possible? what's the most common reaction of people when they're forced to pay for some game they might not get hooked by yet?

if you're still not very sure about that then please check the news of another mmog named as 'EVE Online' and i believe you will find the answer. it's a very famous game in europe and nowadays they have a similar disaster caused by some alike problem.

Posted By Faolan on 24-11-2011 11:19 PM
Map 3 is still being finished. There should be a specific shop in each map made just for PT (Player Trading). It would have to use the SET game buy sell prices. That would eliminate anything with prices. There would be no bartering with the prices. If you want it now then pay the price, or go to a store thats further away and spend the same amount of money for the exact same item. Crafted items should also be bought/sold at these location. I don't see any major problems it it was set up like this. Any comments on the on this idea?

if we take away the multi-characters problem then i don't think there's any reason why we should set the prices when doing p2p trading.

i play or played some other mmog like Erepublik and Torn City. none of them set the prices of p2p trading for their players.

the spirit of free markets is one of the charms that most of the great mmog possess. it gives players the space to innovate and enjoy the game in a more creative way.

yer sometimes it might (or will) cause some loophole to exploit but just like the old said, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

right if there's a trading system which allows you to trade between your multi-characters, then i can just let my three characters buy some crap from the last one. so in the end i can afford the shinny weapon and i can share it between all my characters.

Hmm, I see your point.

But if the market prices weren't controlled by players, then you probably couldn't share it between your characters.
You wouldn't be able to sell something to your other characters for cheap with fixed prices.
Or at least that's what I think.


Anyway, you realy don't have to tell me how huge advantages for paying players are bad, I know it myself.
I rarely can afford to pay for a game, so yeah, no huge advantages for the paying ones, please! :-D ;-)

Posted By BlitzMole on 27-11-2011 02:44 PM

Posted By Faolan on 24-11-2011 11:19 PM
Map 3 is still being finished. There should be a specific shop in each map made just for PT (Player Trading). It would have to use the SET game buy sell prices. That would eliminate anything with prices. There would be no bartering with the prices. If you want it now then pay the price, or go to a store thats further away and spend the same amount of money for the exact same item. Crafted items should also be bought/sold at these location. I don't see any major problems it it was set up like this. Any comments on the on this idea?

if we take away the multi-characters problem then i don't think there's any reason why we should set the prices when doing p2p trading.

i play or played some other mmog like Erepublik and Torn City. none of them set the prices of p2p trading for their players.

the spirit of free markets is one of the charms that most of the great mmog possess. it gives players the space to innovate and enjoy the game in a more creative way.

yer sometimes it might (or will) cause some loophole to exploit but just like the old said, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The problem that can come from this is called "real world trades". Its where people sell ingame goods for real $$ to other players. This takes money away from the game and puts it in the pockets of other players.

Example
You have a minigun
I want a minigun
Instead of paying the $$ to the game for the credits to buy it, I pay you 1/2 the same $$ and you sell me the minigun for 1$

Nasty problems follow. I know multiple games now drowning due to RWT


***Edit***
As for the 4 characters for premium users, I actually do not see the issue here. My 4 characters live, breath, work, sleep, and die together. If I can only have 1 character "on the street" at a time, what is the issue with him giving his weapon to another? I mean its kinna stupid for C1 to sit in the safehouse in riot gear with an AK47 and 1000 rounds of ammo, while C2 is on the street in torn up jeans and a ball bat. As long as they are in the same "safe" place on the map why not allow the 4 "alt" characters to switch and swap?

Now if its not allowed I am fine with that, just seems stupid. If you set the "trades" up where price is not set by players then trading between characters is exactly like trading between players so whats the issue? If its the same cost and effect be it player or alt, then it doesnt matter.

I voted yes .

but only with clan's mates, without much complications

would love to see clan safehouse rooms called "shops"

BUT I think it to heavey a blow to lonewolves unless they get a few scattered around the maps as well.

Posted By Lord Simon Cross on 27-11-2011 06:05 PM

Posted By BlitzMole on 27-11-2011 02:44 PM

Posted By Faolan on 24-11-2011 11:19 PM
Map 3 is still being finished. There should be a specific shop in each map made just for PT (Player Trading). It would have to use the SET game buy sell prices. That would eliminate anything with prices. There would be no bartering with the prices. If you want it now then pay the price, or go to a store thats further away and spend the same amount of money for the exact same item. Crafted items should also be bought/sold at these location. I don't see any major problems it it was set up like this. Any comments on the on this idea?

if we take away the multi-characters problem then i don't think there's any reason why we should set the prices when doing p2p trading.

i play or played some other mmog like Erepublik and Torn City. none of them set the prices of p2p trading for their players.

the spirit of free markets is one of the charms that most of the great mmog possess. it gives players the space to innovate and enjoy the game in a more creative way.

yer sometimes it might (or will) cause some loophole to exploit but just like the old said, don't throw the baby out with the bathwater.

The problem that can come from this is called "real world trades". Its where people sell ingame goods for real $$ to other players. This takes money away from the game and puts it in the pockets of other players.

Example
You have a minigun
I want a minigun
Instead of paying the $$ to the game for the credits to buy it, I pay you 1/2 the same $$ and you sell me the minigun for 1$

Nasty problems follow. I know multiple games now drowning due to RWT


***Edit***
As for the 4 characters for premium users, I actually do not see the issue here. My 4 characters live, breath, work, sleep, and die together. If I can only have 1 character "on the street" at a time, what is the issue with him giving his weapon to another? I mean its kinna stupid for C1 to sit in the safehouse in riot gear with an AK47 and 1000 rounds of ammo, while C2 is on the street in torn up jeans and a ball bat. As long as they are in the same "safe" place on the map why not allow the 4 "alt" characters to switch and swap?

Now if its not allowed I am fine with that, just seems stupid. If you set the "trades" up where price is not set by players then trading between characters is exactly like trading between players so whats the issue? If its the same cost and effect be it player or alt, then it doesnt matter.

1. no one will sell their premium items for half outside of the game unless the items have certain problem serious enough for the devs to look into it first.

2. RWT is not limited to in-game items. account-selling happens often. what are you gonna do this time? set players' ip?

3. i already explained the potential problem could be caused by the trading between multi-characters of the same player. but i didn't say we should just simply ban it to solve it. please don't use the word 'stupid' if you can't read.

4. in real life, a planned economy is one of the worst things men have created so far. in game it's the same. as a premium player myself currently, i won't keep paying for a mmog in which the prices of everything are set. i'd rather to spend the money on some single player games for PC, PS3 or Wii. we all know there are much more splendid everything-is-set games on those platforms.

I would expect account sales to be possible on anything you put real $$ into. I have no problem with it. All I am trying to tell/show everyone is the problems with the system your promoting. Not because I do not like the system, but because they are issues already experienced in those systems while playing games which use them. I can tell you some real horror stories that can come to life if this happens, and PVP is forced on the server, but find no need in doing so.

I fully agree with the baby and the bath water thing, I don't even mind multi's personally, yet everyone seems so "uneasy" about them here? Either way, just stating problems I see is all, and yes I can read and yes I still think its STUPID that my four characters share lockers, drink water from the same source, eat food from the same garden, sleep in the same bed, and train in the same rooms at the same time and can not share a weapon. Thats Just My Opinion.

to be frank i don't think you have a clear mind on this topic

first how the hell could account selling be allowed while item selling be banned through RWT? players spent rl cash on both so what's the difference?

second from my perspective you haven't address the details how item swap between multi-characters of one player will work in the system you suggested. there're two possibilities:

one is that it will be treated the same as trading between different players so if your no.2 wants the PKM your no.1 is possessing, your no.2 will have to pay the same amount of cash to your no.1 as you pay to npc, which I guess is not the way you meant, because in this way if your no.2 doesn’t have enough cash, then he will have to stay ‘on the street in torn up jeans and a ball bat’.

the other is that it will be totally free to swap items between your multi-characters. and in my previous post i already showed the potential problem of imbalance it will cause in a system like this one. to make it clearer let me do some basic calculation here:

a premium player has twice amount of sp that a non-pay player has. so it can be expected that on average the daily income of the former should be twice as the one of the later as long as both of them use up their sp everyday. once you break the barriers between your multi-characters, the difference will be widened to 2*4=8 times. and i believe anyone with a normal functional brain can imagine what kind of damage it can do to the game. and it will be insane to implement such a trading system just to meet your emotional need of ‘sleep & die together’.

this is the end of my argument in this thread. if you really want to know how ppl’s attitudes towards your price-fixed trading system just set up a poll and see if they will vote for it.

I see no reason to differentiate between characters on the same premium account and other characters. You got the money, you can buy it. You don't got the money, you outta luck. Wouldn't want Calamity to be able to run to daddy Cyrus to see if she can 'borrow' the M107 for the evening... yes, that kinda stuff annoys me in RL too?!

I suppose, I wouldn't mind seeing some sort of highly restricted trading system. i.e The two involved parties must absolutely be in the same location at the same time (both parties must confirm trade live) with money and/or goods in hand (bag), to do the deal. Maybe even charge a few SP to do a deal. The above will cut down on a lot of nonsense like 'mailing' items to each other, leaving things at drop boxes or with mediators, etc.

The simplicity of the current shop system (though not very realistic) really makes it hard to justify a trading system. Virtually everything is available and often at many locations. Anything can be sold at any shop. There's your trade, right there.

*edit*

@BlitzMole

He certainly does have a clear mind on this. He does not want to have to work as hard as a player with a non-premium account. That is apparent...

Posted By BlitzMole on 01-12-2011 06:41 AM
to be frank i don't think you have a clear mind on this topic

first how the hell could account selling be allowed while item selling be banned through RWT? players spent rl cash on both so what's the difference?

second from my perspective you haven't address the details how item swap between multi-characters of one player will work in the system you suggested. there're two possibilities:

one is that it will be treated the same as trading between different players so if your no.2 wants the PKM your no.1 is possessing, your no.2 will have to pay the same amount of cash to your no.1 as you pay to npc, which I guess is not the way you meant, because in this way if your no.2 doesn’t have enough cash, then he will have to stay ‘on the street in torn up jeans and a ball bat’.

the other is that it will be totally free to swap items between your multi-characters. and in my previous post i already showed the potential problem of imbalance it will cause in a system like this one. to make it clearer let me do some basic calculation here:

a premium player has twice amount of sp that a non-pay player has. so it can be expected that on average the daily income of the former should be twice as the one of the later as long as both of them use up their sp everyday. once you break the barriers between your multi-characters, the difference will be widened to 2*4=8 times. and i believe anyone with a normal functional brain can imagine what kind of damage it can do to the game. and it will be insane to implement such a trading system just to meet your emotional need of ‘sleep & die together’.

this is the end of my argument in this thread. if you really want to know how ppl’s attitudes towards your price-fixed trading system just set up a poll and see if they will vote for it.

I dont think you even remotely understand anything about what I am saying.

I'm not the one bringing up account sales and RWT. I am responding to other who bring it up. Why your blaming me for it is beyond me. As for account sales, it is done basicly in EVER game that you put $$ into, and can be done right now perfectly well as the game stands now.

How will the admins know anything? What an IP changes? Well that was from a move, be it across town or across the world. What I was attempting to point out to you is the fact if PLAYERS set the price, then WHAT stops RWT? Thats all I am asking. Everything else is yours to answer, not mine.

As for this issue with "premium" accounts. I find it truely silly to think players would get 1 weapon and use it between 4 characters, but you know what it CAN happen, and it prolly will. Still, I fail to see this major UNBALANCING you claim. There is no PVP. They only person you compete with is YOURSELF. If you pay for premium more then likely your going to get other things as well. Your going to get tired of having to keep all characters in the same space and get tired of trading 1 weapon, but yes you are correct the situation you bring up can happen.

I can not see how you are so offended by giving armor weaker then your own to an alt character. I can not see why you are so offended by giving food or aid to an alt character in need. I mean would you feel better if it was stated you can not "give away" anything listed as "the strongest" of anything you have. Meaning you can only give your alt characters secondary or weaker weapons and armor. But hey to each there own.

I have made my suggestions in this threads and others. I don't do polls as they are USELESS. A) its done by a player and not an admin, so it means nothing. B) A very Small % of the game uses the forums, prolly the smallest of any game I have every played but I chalk that up to the fact this is not a PVP but a game where a person challenges himself, so there is 0 need to use forums.

My emotional needs? really? I got premium because its cheap and I like the game. A year of fun for 1/2 the price of a console game that will be beaten in 2 maybe 3 months tops,,,,, yeah I think its a good investment here. Sorry if how I play a game that can and will NEVER effect you, how you play, or anything else concerning you effects you emotionally.

I don't think that implementing the trading system and allowing premium characters to trade stuff amongst themselves while keeping game balanced would be such big an issue.


Seems to me that BlitzMole doesn't quite get the arguments others stated here.
I'm sure trading between characters could be implemented in such a way to not affect the game economy (or whatever you want to call it).

And premium users don't have that big advantages, compared to other games.
Hell, let them trade stuff between their characters - they have to buy the said item anyway.
So what's the difference between buying something for yourself and buying something for your other character?

Posted By Emily on 02-12-2011 03:11 PM
I don't think that implementing the trading system and allowing premium characters to trade stuff amongst themselves while keeping game balanced would be such big an issue.

As long as it doesn't turn into pass the same set of uber-gear to whichever of my premie chars is hitting the town that night. That would seriously dilute the amount of effort that premies have to go to waltz around with that PSN Sniper Rifle. It would be almost like the thing would only cost a premium player about $4K since he only needs to buy 1 now instead of 4.

Seems to me that BlitzMole doesn't quite get the arguments others stated here.

Didn't see the problem with BMs points. But hell, I'm just an analyst.

I'm sure trading between characters could be implemented in such a way to not affect the game economy (or whatever you want to call it).

Agreed. I think the simple move to the same sqaure, setup a 2-player trade in real-time (popup window) involving ONLY the gear/money you have on you, and then both parties confirm the deal in real-time (both parties have to click an accept button) and each party gets charged some SP, might be the best in this zombie apocalypse environment.

And premium users don't have that big advantages, compared to other games.

I'm premie and I have plenty of advantage already.

I do think premium players have it alot easier. Just the SP amounts alone are massively different.

What I can not understand is why it matters? Nothing a premium player does effects a non premium player. Its not like anything is being taken away from someone else and given to a premium player. Everyone plays by themselves and against themselves. Everyone chooses their challenge for the day, be it covering as much ground as possible, building safehouses, finding food, scaneging for items for sale or use, what ever it is, its the players choice. On top of that there is the time commitment. I play this game sometimes for hrs, sometimes not for weeks at a time. It doesnt matter. It doeant effect anyone else.

I do agree with the 1 weapon and 1 armor being passed between Alts being a bad idea. I have offered multiple ways to limit or restrict this. They have to be in the same "safe" area to swap. Making it so a character will not give away the best "anything" they have, or only give away items they have 2 or more of. Yet no one who opposes the idea thinks its remotely stupid or unbelievable that in R/L things would not be shared. Either Way I am fine with it. What ever the Dev's decide and what ever direction they choose I am fine with, but it wont stop me from voicing my opinion when asked, or asking for things that I feel would add to the game. Its the Dev's call, but if no player makes suggestions, how can they improve the game for the players.

@ Cyrus Kane who said
"@BlitzMole

He certainly does have a clear mind on this. He does not want to have to work as hard as a player with a non-premium account. That is apparent..."

Same as you huh? If you didnt want to work as hard you would not have gotten premium as well? Seeing how just having the additional SP and faster regen rate makes it loads easier. Its not like anyone elses work load effects yours, and yours effets no one elses.


But you like to take what you want from a convo, ignoring other points which do not fit into your thinking. I mean forget that I AGREE all 4 alts using the same stuff is a bad idea. Forget that 1 have attempted to make limits and restriction which would infact STOP the very thing you feel is so wrong, Forget that its just the opinion of a player when he was asked, not something being done by the Devs. Forget that I even state either way is fine with me. I can play it either way with no issue what so ever.


Cyrus,I also agree with your assessment of the ingame shops being your "trades". Only thing I would see the trading idea adding past that is it is more items in 1 location. Instead of going 40 or 50 blocks to get something not sold at your closest shop, and another use for the multiple empty safehouse rooms. instead of having to travel away to sell items, they could be sold at safehouse shops for other clan mates to buy and use instead of having to go hunt and find them. Easier yes, creating something that will unbalance the game, I do not see how since everything that can be done can already be done somewhere else in the game.

*didnt read second page so feel free to flame *

First Post <img src='http://blog.zombiepandemic.com/DesktopModules/ActiveForums/themes/dark//emoticons/biggrin.gif' align="absmiddle" border="0" /> here goes...

Trading is open to abuse, yes, but that is, in my opinion, one of the inherited features of player trading. also, simply having the prices set to the normal in-game levels will simply create new shops, not a player trade system (if i'm understanding this right) which wouldn't then be player trading at all, not really. and i've got to say, i do agree with Cross; that it is stupid that four characters linked to the same account, so to speak, cannot share weapons.

it's not like its four different accounts working together, which i would then understand the "no sharing weapons" idea...

The argument that we are playing in a vacuum does not pass muster. This game has a player ranking list. You may rest assured that every player playing this game would like to think that they might rise to the top of that leader board given the right circumstances. Rule changes that jeopardize that, will have an impact on players.

Posted By Cyrus Kane on 04-12-2011 12:17 AM
The argument that we are playing in a vacuum does not pass muster. This game has a player ranking list. You may rest assured that every player playing this game would like to think that they might rise to the top of that leader board given the right circumstances. Rule changes that jeopardize that, will have an impact on players.

You are correct.

I seroiusly doubt any non premium player will ever rank as easily as a premium player due to SP avalibility alone, but you are correct there. I never pay attention to or obsess with the rankings page since its of no concern to me.

i haven't read any comments ...just saw the thread title & wanted to add my 2 cents

trading is cool in the beginning, especially when high-level players try to help newbies (not their own alts) ...but trading will always be abused/misused, which is why i'll always vote against it.

rule of thumb: new players should play as if they are the first player to create an account/character(in a brand new game, like beta testers/players) & advance from level 1 alone. nowadays, games don't have longevity because they become too easy for new players. imo, a game tutorial/wiki/guide shouldn't be available. players should figure out everything on their own. why would new players scavenge for loot if they can find a place to work all day for money to trade? why would new players search the whole map (1) if there's a map on a wiki showing them where the shops, quests, etc are to be found?

trading is unnecessary because it makes new (and intermediate) players lazy ...helps them level faster, which makes the novelty wear off months before it should ...and makes the game unfair for players who chose not to trade at all.

if there was a trading system that works through a NPC, where loot was sold & bought for prices based on quality/quantity, then trading may work.