Hey everyone!
I haven't put TOO much thought into this idea, so if you have any contributions/suggestions/complaints PLEASE join in!!

Here are a few suggestions for the scavenging system for when it gets incorporated into the game (hopefully soon!) :

1. Containers (ie., 'truck', 'car', 'pile of trash', etc.) should have a limit to the amount of times they can be searched during a given amount of time.

For example: a specific APC in a zone has 15-25 (determined randomly?) allowed searches per hour (or 30 minutes or 2 hours?). Once the APC has been searched that many times, it will no longer give any drops (maybe have it display a message 'There is nothing left to find here' and refund any AP used- or not haha).

  a. Another possible addition to this rule could be that each given player character is allowed a certain amount of searches per container as well. This would prevent one person from clearing out all the loot before anyone else could get a slice of the pie while still ensuring that it is a somewhat competitive system.

For example: John runs up to trash can and searches it 5 times. John finds a banana peel, a dead rat, and 3 rocks during his 5 searches (what did he expect searching a trash can in that part of town?!). Since he has 0/5 searches left to use on that specific trash can, he goes off in search of more garbage. Since John was the first person to search that trash can it now has 15/20 possible searches left. Sally stumbles into the lot and decides to search the trash can too. She then has 0/5 for that specific trash can, and it has 10/20 possible left for the remainder of the hour. You get the point.

 

2. I'm sure this is already the intention but I figured I'd say it anyway- containers should contain salvage that is relevant to their type (for the most part). You're not gonna find very many frag-grenades in a pile of trash, but in an APC that would obviously be much more plausible. It's still fun to find something REALLY random or awesome even in an unexpected place, so I would be all for finding a flamethrowers in dumpsters, teddy bears in APC's, etc. BUT it should be a very rare occurence- the exception, not the rule.

  a. One obvious problem of the scavenging system is going to be balancing realism with practicality/fairness. It's going to be rough, but a general rule of thumb would be, the better the item-> the more rare it is. This seems pretty intuitive, but thought I'd mention it just in case. Let me clarify: I am not asking for an 'item grinding' system where you have to search for weeks before finding a good item, nor do I want a system that is TOO realistic (in real life you'd never really find anything but trash in piles of trash, no one throws guns, ammo, and stimpacks in the garbage , nor nor do I want a system that makes it too easy to find good stuff around every corner (cuz then everyone will be rich and there will be no challenge), SOOO essentially- somewhere in the middle of all this lies a balance of fun and rainbows.

 

3. Which brings me to my next idea- container 'defenders'.
If the scavenging system were implemented right now, it would be WAYYYY too easy. There's no zombies standing near that trash can, hiding in those cars, or in those dumpsters! I also think this should be a separate entity from the zombies tab.
Realistic standpoint: you see a male zombie and a female zombie stumbling around near the car you want to search, if you get close enough to search it, they'll notice you and eat your brains.
How it looks in the game: Car - Being defended by Male Zombie (30 ft) and Female Zombie (40 ft) =Attack=
You have to weigh the pros and cons of your actions, 'is whatever is in that car worth fighting that zombie couple? Of course!'

  a. A possible addition to this idea would be having the enemies be generally (not always of course, everyone loves diversity ) relative to the container you are searching- for instance: Zombie Soldiers defending APC or Zombie Bum defending Pile of Trash.

  b. Going along with this, certain containers should be more rare/beneficial to loot than others (once again, intuitive) such as an APC or police car. The tradeoff is that you fight soldiers and zombie riot cops to earn your military grade loot.

  c. Another possibility for this loot defense mechanism could be surprise attacks, similar to when you are traveling. Example: You kill off the hotdog vendor zombie ambling around his hotdog van, coast is clear. You search the van- BAM another hotdog vendor zombie jumps out at you and you have to fight him before you can proceed with searching, or flee.

  d. Last thing in this category is two item recommendations. Some sort of thrown-type item, perhaps a 'slab of meat' and 'pipe bomb(L4D)/noisemaker/pager/cell phone' that would act as distractions to the zombies. Each time a zombie is 'distracted' it gets moved to a group under the 'zombies' tab. These items could be used in multiple situations, here are a few.
Slab of meat - distracts ONE zombie long enough for escape/scavenge.

Example 1: You want to search an APC being protected by one VERY STRONG zombie soldier but you're out of ammo, go slab of meat! Soldier gets bumped from the APC on the scavenging tab to a new group under the zombie tab and you are free to salvage the APC.
Example 2: That fucking bear ambushes you on your way to college again (happens to me in real life all the time ), go slab of meat! Bear gets bumped to a new group in zombie tab and you don't have to deal with him again til tomorrow.
Pipe bomb/noisemaker/pager/cell phone - distracts ALL zombies long enough for escape/scavenge. Basically the same as slab of meat except better.
More examples: You are clearing out a building to make it a safehouse but there's a stubborn group in there consisting of 3 crippled women, an obese zombie man 10 ft away, and a very strong wolf. Make that cell phone ring and throw it out the window! Now deathtrap zombie group is outside the building in the zombie tab out there.

Another example: You are standing outside a school that your rival clan made into a safehouse. It's late, they're probably inside sleeping. You find the nastiest group of hungries you can outside, attack them, then throw that cell phone through a school window and watch the zombies go to town on those barricades!
Anyways, obviously this distraction items would be pretty good (basically a get out of jail free card, except replace 'jail' with 'having your body opened up and your organs eaten'). Fleeing usually gets the job done, but in a serious pinch having one of these would be really nice! Because they would be such badass items, I propose that they be a relatively uncommon, especially the cellphone (or whatever).

That's all I've got for now! Hope you guys like my ideas!
Feedback of any kind is welcome! Thanks for taking the time to read this,
Happy hunting
-ButtSchex

I've edited your post. Don't worry i only reformatted it a bit so it is easier to read through, i didn't changed anything else in your post.

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^^ thanks Wicked, so much more easy to read now, also its a VERY good idea, and the fact that a Truck can be "protected" by a zombie is brilliant!

Posted By TheWicked on 18 Feb 2010 12:48 PM

I've edited your post. Don't worry i only reformatted it a bit so it is easier to read through, i didn't changed anything else in your post.

For larger posts please use this functions.

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P.S. Do also use return more often

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Nice going, we really need clear and readable posts, my eyes hurt when I see a single block of text with no way to spot any of the points without just reading through it all.

 Here is my response to your ideas ButtSchex:

1: We definitely don't intend for people to be allowed to search infinitely, we just want 1 search pr container. The container 'remembers' what you found, so searching again will just show the same item. If another player searches he too will see the same item. If someone takes the item, the container will be empty for 10 minutes, when you search after the 10 min then something or nothing will spawn. If an item is not taken in a couple of days, it will be replaced next time someone searches.

Having to store how many times who has searched where and when could potentially result in a huge amount of data. I may be worried for no reason here, but I always have to consider these things. If we can avoid store extra data, we will.

2: Containers already contain relevant item types (no teddy in the APC), maybe too many weapons with too high probability, but we will adjust this before turning it on.

3: We have considered having a chance of being attacked by one of the zombie groups on the location every time you do a search but I never thought of actually having them stand by the individual containers. The simplest solution is just to have the chance of random attack, having defenders by the containers would require that we rethink the user interface with the two tabs and mix it together. It may make a mess of it but maybe if we make something a little less html-table-like we could have something cool.

Lets say: Zombies are 100 (whatever units) away from you, with every move you make the chance that one of them may see you increases. Sooner or later they spot you, and will come closer (maybe without recognizing it -> smarts will increase the chance to see them coming closer).

Example 1:
You have 20 smarts. Zombies are 100 yards away.
You might think, "Well, they are far away. Enough time to Scavange through this pile of garbage."
You search and search, but didn't found anything but a flesh wound on your neck.

Example 2:
You have 50 smarts. Zombies are 100 yards away.
Same as above, they are far away, so just lets begin searching.
You turn around after the first search to see if the zombies did recognized you. Well you're lucky they didn't.
You tried another container, but you fel over a Cola can, this time the zombies have recognized you and come closer

Example 3:
You have 50 smarts. Zombies are 50 yards away.
You think that you might have enough time to search through the containers before they recognize you. So you began to search
After the first search you turn around and see that the zombies are coming closer. 40 yards away.
You now think that they are coming to close. You run away

 

In the first example we can see if you're dumb and greedy your brainZ get eaten.
So smarts should give ability to make logical decisions, like turn your head around from time to time. If your smarts skills are too low you have to  think by yourself when they would reach you ( 0 Yards). Your math skill should be good enough: 100 yards approxiametly 10 yards per turn (Search; Take item; Search == 30 yards; so Zeds might be 70 yards away) or just look at the zombie tab.

In second example we can see if you have enough smarts your character will inform you automatically how far the zeds are away, but a random event has upset your plans. So random events can be used this way too.

In the third example we can see that you've enough smarts and the zombies ain't that far away. But nonetheless you took your chance but failed. A random variable in the source code just don't likes you. 

@Wicked about example 1:
So if you do get noticed and fail scavenging I'm thinking the player should have their health deducted by half.Sure you may be a Lv30 player but you shouldn't neglect the obvious back attack.

Posted By Trance_IX

So if you do get noticed and fail scavenging I'm thinking the player should have their health deducted by half.Sure you may be a Lv30 player but you shouldn't neglect the obvious back attack.

I thought that you'll loose some of your HP + taking a fight.

 

Well lets add taking a fight along with health deduction.

I forsee tons of players around the map just continously refreshing thier browser and stressing the server(Not really sure if that is what causes server lag).

I really like the idea that zombie stand near containers. I know this would merge the scavenge and zombie tab, but think about it. Your not gonna want to jump into a dumpster and start jumbling crap and throwing stuff around. All that noise could draw zombies. What I mean is, give each location its set amount of containers, and or key land marks that zeds can stand near. i.e.

APC
DUMPSTER
OLD RUSTY CAR
SEMI TRUCK
TRUCK TRAILER
FLIPPED OVER PICKUP TRUCK
S.W.A.T. VAN
FRONT OF THE QUICK-E- MART
UNDER HOTEL BALCONY
IN ALLEY
SMALL PARKING LOT

All these little sub places in each location would add a little more flavor to the area. Each area would have a % chance for zombies to spawn on it. So if you want to search that APC, you got to kill the....

(Old Male Zombie, Strong Male Zombie, Bear, Wolf standing next to an APC)

Each location already gets like 6 group spawns at a time. Some places have like 15 I have seen. Just give each group slot a sub location or key landmark. So in a mall, you might have a horde standing around a water fountain. You don't get anything out of the fountain, it just adds feeling of your surroundings. Also, with the whole beeper, noise idea. I love it. I think searching a container should draw a certain amount of aggro. So if you search to much in one location without killing all the groups, they can start attacking you. Also, some zombies could be more easily bothered. Such as dogs, or the BEAR!!! So even if the bear isn't at the APC, you will still kill it because you know it will hear you scavenging.

The beeping noise makers, and bombs are all items that could be crafted. These would be great for the economy. Items to craft and sell. The beepers would be easy to make and useful, but when you use them, you don't get them back. The zombies stomp them to bits. Also, if you have played Left 4 Dead, you know sometimes you throw a pipe bomb, and all the zombies cant get to it before it blows up, so there is a large amount still left untouched. That's how it could work here. You throw a beeper into the ally to draw aggro to it, but the zombies stomp it to pieces to quick to get them all in there, so you got to toss another one in. That could maybe draw aggro to you too, if you throw to many, they start to figure out where the devices are coming from.

Each zombie would be given an aggro level, or attention, or alertness level.

A Wolf would have like Alertness 7.

Searching a desk makes 3 aggro for that location. Searching a noisy filing cabinet draws 11 aggro.
So if you open a file cabinet, everything with Alertness 11 or under gets drawn to you.

Some zombies would have huge aggro numbers. Like 75. You can do a bunch of stuff and they don't care. But it adds up and will bother them if you keep it up. And some zeds could even have it set so their aggro doesn't stack. As long as you don't make to much noise at once, they don't care about you. This could make different containers unique to there difficulty. Some container have great items in them, but you got to kill the zombies guarding that area, kill all the zombies that will get drawn by searching, and then search, and maybe even have an encounter possibility activated by the search itself. Like you open the large locker and out jumps a so-and-so zombie. This could add a lot of depth to searching, instead of just clicking on each container once.

I have a question. Why do I keep finding manequin legs inside lets say... APCs!!!??? What is wrong with you guys xD Shouldn't we find more relevant items inside a military vehicle? And ambulances keep giving me trafic cones ._______.

This question was raised a few times, i think its at random at least to some extant.

Posted By Trance_IX on 09 May 2010 12:22 PM
I imagine people finding a gun in the APC and then ditching their current weapons for the gun.

Ok, but at what point they desided a manequin's leg was always a good choice, 'cause it's all I've found so far lol.

I always find ammo in the military vehicles, once I found an assault rifle.

Each type of scavenging "container" has a list of items that can spawn there and each item has a probability. I don't know why the mannequin leg would be in there but if you pick it up and discard it a new item will spawn sooner (in 10 min I think). If you leave it it will stay there for a couple of days.

The guy has a point, Mannequin leg's are all over military and police vehicles xD

there should be more "Nothing" and maybe more small items, like ammo

Posted By Helo on 09 May 2010 04:09 PM

I always find ammo in the military vehicles, once I found an assault rifle.

Each type of scavenging "container" has a list of items that can spawn there and each item has a probability. I don't know why the mannequin leg would be in there but if you pick it up and discard it a new item will spawn sooner (in 10 min I think). If you leave it it will stay there for a couple of days.

Sure... remove the SP penalty for picking up useless items and I might do it. I think the SP for picking something up should be proportional to the item's weight. I hate spending 2 SP for picking up 3 (three) 9mm bullets.

i don't pick anything that's not worth 50$, just leave them there
aside 10+ 5.56
you're better off scavenging more times and finding army pants, they are worth almost 200 bullets

Who does not just love pants

Posted By kemeD on 10 May 2010 09:32 AM
i don't pick anything that's not worth 50$, just leave them there
aside 10+ 5.56
you're better off scavenging more times and finding army pants, they are worth almost 200 bullets

Still, I believe that picking something up should cost a X amount of SP, where X is directly porportional to the weight of the item(s).